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oeyre
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Redundant power inputs

Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:37 am

Hi all,

Are there any plans to produce a RouterBOARD with redundant power inputs?

Alternatively, is there a strategy others are using for a power supply with built in redundancy.

Just had a RB fall over at a very unfortunate time in the night due to power supply failure.
Last edited by oeyre on Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Defrance
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:02 am

according to me when RouterBoard power failure, i replace by an adapter with 24volts and 3.3A.
Its working properly and adapter has been installed inside the box to protect it against rain and so on 8)
[img]Francis%20Shika[/img]
 
oeyre
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:20 am

In case anyone is interested, one of the guys here with some electronics skills made a dual input adapter using a diode.

I can post more details when we finish it.
 
outlawjhs
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:12 pm

If you have enough space you can install an automatic transfer switch. This will allow single power input devices to have redundant power inputs without modifying any hardware. APC and other manufactures make them. They are about $700 and are manageable.
 
oeyre
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:32 am

If you have enough space you can install an automatic transfer switch. This will allow single power input devices to have redundant power inputs without modifying any hardware. APC and other manufactures make them. They are about $700 and are manageable.
Unfortunately that is beyond our budget for a CPE install.
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:34 am

Unfortunately that is beyond our budget for a CPE install.
I leave the CPE site to the client. If his power goes down probably his PC too.
I advice them to install a CPU, that would protect both. His PC and the power adapter. But client has to budget for it. He also pays for new adapters if they go.
Service stops somewhere.. next we need to guarantee his PC always works! :(
 
oeyre
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:06 am

Service stops somewhere.. next we need to guarantee his PC always works! :(
Typically the ISP/NSP does not supply PCs :)

(but they do supply the service delivery hardware)

For ~$5 worth of knick knacks its worth avoiding a late night callout.
 
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normis
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:55 am

newest RouterBOARD models support both PoE and Jack powering at the same time. When one of them will fail, other will continue to power the device. If the voltages will be different, it will use the higher one, and will switch to the other one when that one is removed.

Basically redundant power.
No answer to your question? How to write posts
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:13 pm

Service stops somewhere.. next we need to guarantee his PC always works! :(
Typically the ISP/NSP does not supply PCs :)

(but they do supply the service delivery hardware)

For ~$5 worth of knick knacks its worth avoiding a late night callout.
Well, don't know. We suffer relative regular short power cuts in our area and the voltage can fluctuate 10-15% easy in the country side. I guess some 40% of all my adapter lost life because of this over the years. In the beginning we replaced them for free, because yeah, its our antenna that needs the power for the adapter supplied by us.
But this became so annoying and costly (some clients needed new adapter every two months!) we now charge them the costs after the first free replacement and we only come out during office hours to replace them.
We've had occasions that due a lightning strike on the electricity grid the power just dropped for a split second to come back in a spike to ruin several adapters of our clients at once!

We supply the service, but end user has to supply his own stable power. If not we can't bear the costs for that.
The $5 adapters are the ones to go first anyway so we decided to buy a little higher quality. So together with time spend I would say a call out to replace an adapter would cost me € 25,- each time, almost the monthly subscription fee!

Heavy duty (=heavy paying) clients might need a different approach, but for the ordinary household this is a reasonable approach I think.
 
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normis
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:16 pm

one of our MFM partners offers a nice solution for these needs:
http://www.restlesspowerbox.com/
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jtroybailey
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:22 pm

Service stops somewhere.. next we need to guarantee his PC always works! :(
Typically the ISP/NSP does not supply PCs :)

(but they do supply the service delivery hardware)

For ~$5 worth of knick knacks its worth avoiding a late night callout.
Well, don't know. We suffer relative regular short power cuts in our area and the voltage can fluctuate 10-15% easy in the country side. I guess some 40% of all my adapter lost life because of this over the years. In the beginning we replaced them for free, because yeah, its our antenna that needs the power for the adapter supplied by us.
But this became so annoying and costly (some clients needed new adapter every two months!) we now charge them the costs after the first free replacement and we only come out during office hours to replace them.
We've had occasions that due a lightning strike on the electricity grid the power just dropped for a split second to come back in a spike to ruin several adapters of our clients at once!

We supply the service, but end user has to supply his own stable power. If not we can't bear the costs for that.
The $5 adapters are the ones to go first anyway so we decided to buy a little higher quality. So together with time spend I would say a call out to replace an adapter would cost me € 25,- each time, almost the monthly subscription fee!

Heavy duty (=heavy paying) clients might need a different approach, but for the ordinary household this is a reasonable approach I think.
Thats what a UPS is for
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:24 pm

newest RouterBOARD models support both PoE and Jack powering at the same time. When one of them will fail, other will continue to power the device. If the voltages will be different, it will use the higher one, and will switch to the other one when that one is removed.

Basically redundant power.
This is interesting. Which boards?
Also, if POE would be 12V fm battery while we use a 18V adapter, can the rb than keep the battery charged? (Or the other way round, 18V POE with 12V fm battery on jack.) That would be a real neat feature! Than every CPE only need a small battery to have redundant power supply besides the normal adapter and it will survive small power cuts!
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:25 pm

one of our MFM partners offers a nice solution for these needs:
http://www.restlesspowerbox.com/
This is what I have been searching for quit some time! All I found is something like a factor 10 higher priced! Thanks for the link!
 
WirelessRudy
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:36 pm

Thats what a UPS is for
And that's what the client can invest in if he wants to save the cost of the adapter replacement and his burned PC power supply.

Also, I myself spend some 2K on several UPS from several vendors over the last years to protect several of my own PC's and AP's. But in the end they also don't survive too many cuts and spikes. The electronic boards are just gone. Special the charge regulators fail.
Most reliable solution is battery power with a good charger. They work forever it seems. I got one station with 5 boards and 10 radios running on one big second hand 300AH-12V truck start battery with cheap Taiwan make battery charger for 5 years now and it still survives power cuts up to several hours.... costs: 100 bucks..... :D
 
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normis
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:07 pm

all models that don't have jumper selection for PoE/Non-PoE support this
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Beccara
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:23 am

one of our MFM partners offers a nice solution for these needs:
http://www.restlesspowerbox.com/

Great untill the PoE pop's on the board :P
Which board's can handle dual input? All of the RB4xx series?
 
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matrot2
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:17 pm

Hi all,

Are there any plans to produce a RouterBOARD with redundant power inputs?

Alternatively, is there a strategy others are using for a power supply with built in redundancy.

Just had a RB fall over at a very unfortunate time in the night due to power supply failure.
UPS
http://tandem.ck.ua/ups_mt-eng.php
http://tandem.ck.ua/ups_mte.php

Powered by 4 independent sources. (RB-750)
http://tandem.ck.ua/img/electronics/urp4_1.jpg

UPS mikrotik monitor
http://tandem.ck.ua/ups_mtm-eng.php
 
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siscom
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:57 pm

one of our MFM partners offers a nice solution for these needs:
http://www.restlesspowerbox.com/

Great untill the PoE pop's on the board :P
Which board's can handle dual input? All of the RB4xx series?
Pop on the routerboard or the restless powerbox?

Rgds,
Mark.
 
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:22 pm

Pop on the RB and a single device like the restless is silly as well, No point in going for something like that when the box can fail. Conformation about which RB's do and dont support PoE/DC Jack at the same time will allow us to put in truly N+1 power systems for our core sites
 
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normis
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:00 am

yes, all of the RB400 series should support what I described
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Sun May 08, 2011 11:11 am

Hello Folks!

Using both PoE and the little DC jacket plus the 24V transformers and dual UPS:es has been working for years at our site. They have survived thunderstorms, power outage and human errors etc.

It is like Normis say, all RB which do not have the jumper for PoE or DC jacket works.

Only known drawback is that we did never get gigabit ethernet work with PoE.

Also the diode variants works well, we also uses that, two schottky diode's. (then gigabit issue is overcome)

At customer site we nowdays allways install a small UPS for the RB411 based antenna and customer switch/router/pc/monitor, $75.
 
eivind
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Sun May 08, 2011 6:47 pm

Some of You might like this solution. It's relatively cheap, and You can afford to install a second onethrough a diode to get full redundance both on power and UPS. Exellent for AP's and Links. The psu behind the diode should have the battery connected and be adjusted about 2 volts lower to get it work as a "slave". Gives full redundancy, no interrupt and several hours ups. Do You want to log if the backup psu has power just connect an outdated RB and log the voltage or cpu with Dude. :)

http://www.interprojekt.com.pl/switchin ... p-567.html
 
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:01 pm

It needs to be Enterprise grade, is this diode solution sold pre-made somewhere ?
Last edited by NetworkPro on Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/NetworkPro_on_Quality_of_Service
 
sanitycheck
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:43 pm

If you are in the US you might want to consider the Wifi Texas (find-a-poe.com) part called WS-Failover. They sell this part for redundant power to their smaller multi-port injectors (which are great) that don't have dual-power inputs built-in. But it will (should) work to power a Mikrotik directly.

I plan to use a WS-Failover to power a CCR1009 this way, adding a second 24V power supply to match the one that comes with the router. I'd prefer to connect the CCR to the existing multi-port PoE injector I have there already, which powered the old RB450G, but the CCR draws more (33W) than the injector per-port rating of 0.63A (24V*0.63A=15W). In this case I can't install higher-volt power supplies (56V*0.63A=35W) on the injector. The older Mikrotik and Ubiquiti equipment also attached to it can't handle voltage that high.
 
jo2jo
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:51 am

newest RouterBOARD models support both PoE and Jack powering at the same time. When one of them will fail, other will continue to power the device. If the voltages will be different, it will use the higher one, and will switch to the other one when that one is removed.

Basically redundant power.

This is an awesome feature / ability (very smart mikrotik) ! I read about it on the fourms about 8 months ago and have tested it quite a few times (and always works great!).

I do recall a post where normis (or maybe it was another MT rep) said that you should use different voltages if using 2x input sources on a MT (ie 1x 24v via poe-IN and 1x 12v via DC plug in).

Is this accurate still (that you should use different voltages on 2x inputs) ?

tks
:beep :beep :beep
 
Electronics
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Re: Redundant power inputs

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:06 am

Hi MIkrotiks ,

I have replaced to my CRS 317-1G-165+ the two internal A.C to D.C power supplies with 2 X DC-DC converters ( 48 input to 24 v D.C output 70 watts each ) to be powered-up from a telecom supply 48 v D.C.

The negative of the two power input of CRS Circuit Board is common , checked with the multi-meter.

When i power on the first DC-DC converter , i have 0.04 volts to the second power input of the MIkrotik CRS board with out connected the second DC-DC converter.

Also same happening with second input to the first power input connector.

Both converters power-on works normally also CRS.

Any idea why this 0.04 V is appearing?


Thanks.

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